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The shift to an EV........

37K views 379 replies 66 participants last post by  andy665 
#1 ·
I'm in the very fortunate position of having a company car - currently a '68 plate Volvo V90 R-Design D4. It's fully funded - lease, insurance, maintenance, tyres and fuel (inc private mileage). Yes I pay both car and fuel BIK on it but it works for me.

Our company has recently made the very bold decision to transition all it's company car fleet to electric vehicles over the next few years. Further comms were sent out to us yesterday and they are investigating the possibility of terminating leases earlier than planned. Typically our cars are on 4 year leases, I have 20 months left on mine.

So I thought I'd start a little thread to highlight my research into EVs. My model choices vary but I could be looking at a choice of the following:

  • Kia e-Nero
  • Tesla Model 3
  • Mercedes Benz EQC
  • Audi E-Tron
  • Jaguar I-Pace
  • Tesla Model S

Employees will need to make a (monthly salary sacrifice) contribution towards the desired model - which can vary from £0 to £350 per month. We'll be fully responsible for charging (whether that's at home or at public chargers) - no allowance will be given towards a home charger. The lease, insurance and maintenance will continue to be borne by the company. Business mileage can be claimed back at 4p per mile (as per HMRC rates)

Interesting time eh?!

Initial thoughts for me:

  • Daily round trip commute varies between 75 miles and 110 miles so I have no issue with range from this perspective
  • Family is all local within 30 mile round trip
  • I can have a charger at home and move to a home EV elec tariff to give me cheap (3p per KwH) off peak charging capabilities
  • Tesla Supercharger network is a positive
  • Non Tesla charging network is a negative
  • Charging on the road appears to be both expensive and problematic at times (non-Tesla)
  • Furthest client is 116 miles away so could possibly only do that with the Tesla 3 or S without a recharge
  • Don't really like the Merc
  • Think the I-Pace looks stunning
  • Not sure the Tesla 3 is large enough in the rear for my needs
  • Do have roof bars and 4 bike carriers (Thule) on the Volvo which I'd need to transfer to any new car - shouldn't be an issue

I'd welcome any thoughts if anyone has been through a similar process and I'll keep this updated as things progress or if I do test drives etc.

:thumb:
 
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#2 ·
I would look at the stated range of any EV and reduce by approx. 30% to get somewhere relative to what is achievable in the real world. The Audi e-Trons seem to have very poor ranges to start with and may discount itself for that reason.

Any reason why the BMW iX3 is not on your list to consider, essentially an electric version of the X3?

We have considered an Enyaq but reviews of the higher capacity model show a big difference between stated and real world range and has been pretty much discounted for that reason

I think the investigation / research you are doing will become familiar to us all over the next few years
 
#4 ·
Again on the theme of increasing the options open to you (although this may not be possible due to company policy), any reason for not showing the Polestar 2? Being a sister company to Volvo would mean that it should be a pretty familiar environment & infrastructure (for servicing & repairs). It's very well regarded / reviewed and they've just announced 2 new 2-wheel drive variants that are £6K / £9K cheaper than the original model. All 3 have a range that should be good for what you've described above as well.

Not sure whereabouts in Leicestershire you live, but Polestar have a test drive event running this coming weekend, with slots available in Nottingham (and Exeter, but guess that's a bit of a trek). Here's the link to book if it's of interest.
 
#7 ·
Unfortunately I don't have any control over what cars are or aren't on the list - it's all down to the lease company and what discounts they can obtain from manufacturers directly. For example, my Volvo V90 is the only one on the fleet because Volvo pulled the discount and I got in before it changed. However I do agree over the Polestar - very competitive pricing and range in line with Tesla Model 3. Should it come to it, I would challenge if it wasn't available.

Any EV would be on a 4 year lease so the reliability and longevity of the Tesla would concern me.
 
#8 ·
The only reason to buy a Tesla in my eyes would be the need to charge on the road regularly, which is where their charging infrastructure comes into its own.

Out of your list the i-Pace would be my pick, closely followed by the e-Niro....or wait a bit and get the new Hyundai Ioniq5.

Happy Shopping!

Cheers,

Chris
 
#17 ·
Thanks - be interested to hear your views, both positive and negative. PM if necc.

Out of that list I would be taking the ipace, I just couldn't live with the dashboard and screen in the Tesla and the fact the model 3 looks a bit like Donald Duck.
iPace is top of my list at the mo too Steve, closely followed by the E-Tron (although the range does concern me on that).

As someone said earlier if you can wait a few months the Nissan Ariya and Kia ev6 will be available - both look great options.
I've been ev only since 2013 by the way, there's no going back!
I really don't know when it would be - it could be tomorrow, could be December or could be when my Volvo lease ends. The list will change though as discounts become available and the lease company updates things so others like the Polestar could make an appearance.

Whatever you decide, they're all going to drastically lose miles during the wintertime.So maybe worth getting onto a few ev forums/groups to see real world figures.
This was my 1st winter in the E-tron 50 with an advertised 190mile range, however i was seeing between 116-120miles and now starting to creep up has it gets warmer now 150-160miles (i don't think I've ever recalled seeing 190 or even 180 lol)
Hmm that is an issue isn't it. I do like the look of the E-Tron and it's build quality will be good, but everything I read references the poor range.

Based on this:

https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/new-and-used-cars/article/car-reliability/most-reliable-cars-adRx52m7zuhV

And in over 3 decades of membership I've yet to find their car reliability results to be far off the mark.

Andy.
Thanks I'll take a read of that at some point.
 
#15 ·
Whatever you decide, they're all going to drastically lose miles during the wintertime.So maybe worth getting onto a few ev forums/groups to see real world figures.
This was my 1st winter in the E-tron 50 with an advertised 190mile range, however i was seeing between 116-120miles and now starting to creep up has it gets warmer now 150-160miles (i don't think I've ever recalled seeing 190 or even 180 lol)
 
#21 ·
The newer models from Hyundai and Kia should have much better charging curves, so potentially much faster rapid charging potential compared to the Kona/e-Niro, so if time is on your side I’d be waiting until you could get a closer look at either of these. They generally have better efficiency than many other EV offerings too, so range will be potentially better than many similarly sized options such as the Audi and Merc models.
 
#26 ·
I'll throw something interesting into the mix. my bosses have four electric vehicles in the company, two Tesla Model X and two Porsche Taycan turbo S. One thing which became apparent when they just had the Teslas, one was on charge at one of the boss's house, he closed his garage door, the electric heaters switched on when the garage door closed, and shortly after his electric tripped out. It was asking too much to be able to charge the car and heat the garage. This is not unique, the other boss had much the same trouble, he has actually had three phase installed at his house now, as the chargers pull so much from the grid. I will add that they both have the most up to date electric systems in their houses, so it has not been added to time and again. The big concern is that, as more people make the switch, the electricity grid will not be able to cope.
Another thing which concerns me is that we are careering headlong into consigning petrol and diesel vehicles to history, but the infrastructure is nowhere near where it needs to be. What about people who live in flats? Or in a terraced house which fronts onto the pavement? How will they be able to safely charge their vehicle? Trail the charger cable across the pavement? It is coming, but we are not ready for it at all.
 
#27 ·
Sounds like they did not do their due diligence i. that case. The first thing any electrician should do before adding a large load such as an EV charger is to do a load calculation to ensure the existing supply to which the EV charger is to be added is capable of taking the load.

For example, I have a 4 bed house with detached double garage, which is all-electric - ground source heat pump for heating and hot water, plus electric cooking etc. My incoming supply is 100A single phase, and when I have my first EV there was no issue adding a 32A charger as the load calculation (including allowed diversity) was within the 100A supply capacity. We then bought a second EV, and wanted a second 32A charger. This would have overloaded my supply if all loads were running at maximum, so my local DNO (the electrical company who look after the electrical distribution network) would only give permission to my installer if there was a fail-safe method to ensure the supply could not be overloaded, and i. this case I had to use a charger that included incoming supply monitoring ie a smart charger. This measure the incoming supply load and if it reaches a pre-determined level (85A in my case, as specified by the DNO) then it steps down the charge rate, or even stops completely, to ensure the supply remains below the permitted level.

In my case both chargers are in my garage, which has a 100A supply cable direct from the meter, as I knew I wanted the ability to have large electrical loads fed from the supply (my house was self-built about 15 years ago so I was fully in control of all construction decisions). The problem with most existing houses is that garages are often fed with a supply capable of 40A max, and somethings even lower. This is on for some sockets and a lighting circuit, but has no headroom for anything else.

For the install where there is electrical heating that trips the supply when the EV charger is used should never have occurred if the electrician was doing his job properly - he should have either declined to install the charger as the supply was insufficient, or insisted that the supply was upgraded to meet the increased supply. That has nothing to do with EVs specifically - it could just have easily been a hot tub added for example and had exactly the same issue.

And 3-phase upgrades are also not unusual if the house is large and there are significant new loads. My neighbour has added a couple of 1-bed holiday lodges on land adjacent to his house, with hot tubs using 3.5kW heaters, but still needed to upgrade to a 3x100A supply to cover all the requirements. He could now also add two or three 32A EV chargers without worrying about load management.

There's a lot of mid-information about how mass-adoption of EVs will overload the grid. The reality is that once we see EVs being used with vehicle-to-grid-capable charging then the grid will be more than happy with mass adoption of EVs as this gives the grid a nationwide energy store to help balance the grid. There are also interviews with spokespeople from the grid who specifically state how more EVs charging overnight on cheap-rate electricity would be a benefit as they avoid the need to drop generating capacity overnight when normal demand drops significantly just now.

We are likely to see time-of-day tariffs becoming more popular as smart metering increases. Some companies have already offered such tariffs, and while this means that users can see some very high unit rates for periods of peak demand, this contrasts with other times when the supplier rates go negative, ie the supplier actually pays you to use power! So those with large battery EVs were actually paid to charge, while also being laid for any other power they could use such as the dishwasher and washing machine. Being able to use the car battery as an energy store (like having a large home battery store) also allows load shifting, to avoid using lower at the times when it costs the most.

Imagine how many vehicles (both private and commerical) there are in country, then imagine how much storage could be made available for the national grid of the owners allows just a small percentage of their battery capacity be made available for load management when they are not being used and are plugged into their vehicle charger. Such use offers a decent income to those owners allowing their vehicles to be used this way, and requires nothing special beyond the vehicle and a compatible EV charger/smart meter. You now have a nationwide dynamic battery energy store without any major infrastructure costs or major installation works. The technology to do this is already mostly available and is already being successfully trialled right now.
 
#28 ·
I bought a Tesla Model 3 Performance in September last year. Best car I have owned. Yes there are issues with Tesla's but I have many friends who have other EV's and they all have their fair share of problems. You only hear about negative issues in the market for Tesla.

If you end up with a choice of EV's then consider the following:

1. Real world wh/mile - if you need to do lot's of miles then 250 wh per mile is the minimum you should look for. I have achieved avg 340 wh per mile since September and can get 250 now it's warming up. A long range version of any EV should get you 200 or more.

2. If like me you are not concerned about "economy" and want to enjoy driving then go for the fastest one you can get. 0-60 in approx 3 seconds doesn't get old. You will not get an amazing handling EV, physics do not allow heavy cars to handle well but test drive any you can.

3. Not sure how you will get "fuel" paid for on private mileage on an EV, especially if you are charging at home. I have a tariff from Octopus Energy that gives me 4 hours of 5p per kWh. At 200 wh per mile it would cost you 1 pence per mile in "fuel".

If you do get one then feel free to use my referral code which will give you £50 and myself £50 towards our bills. share.octopus.energy/tidy-goat-814

If you go down the Tesla route then feel free to use my referral code for 1000 free super charger miles https://www.tesla.com/referral/james98560

You cannot currently beat the Super Charger network. Hands down the second best thing about Tesla after the car.

If you have any questions let me know.
 
#29 ·
Thanks, some useful information. I've already started investigating converting the home electric tariff to an EV friendly one, my current provider does an off peak for about 4p.

The Tesla Supercharger network is a huge plus point, but there are so many good EVs from other manufacturers coming on the market that I'm starting to shift away from Tesla. Pretty much day to day I wouldn't need to recharge outside of the home, so seems pointless to jump on the Tesla wagon for the very odd occasion that i'd need the network.

As yet there is no sight of me requiring to order so the research and investigations continue. Colleagues who've replaced have started to get their EVs - mainly Tesla 3s but with the odd Merc EQC coming through now, so I'll be sure to pick their brains on daily life with an EV.
 
#32 ·
With regards to the Tesla Model 3, Harry Metcalfe did a video on his Harry's Garage Youtube channel which is quite interesting as it gives real world figures etc.
One point i got from it was he compared the efficiency of the Model 3 to the i-Pace and the Tesla is more efficient with a smaller battery than the i-Pace.

One last thing concerning Tesla's model 3, it is by far the best selling EV in the UK currently and in December of last year was the best selling car in the UK full stop.
I do like them but i must admit, the Hyundai toniq5 does like a lovely bit of kit and i'd be very sorely tempted by one if i was in the market for an EV
 
#34 ·
I've got a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, and the electric steering wheel, heated seats, and heated windscreen have little effect on electrical range with only a 12 kWh battery, so cannot see how this could have any noticeable effect on a Tesla with battery many times the size.

I will accept that climate control and cabin heating will have an impact, especially when it's a resistance heater rather than a heat pump.
 
#36 ·
But the 12v is charged from the traction battery with BEVs and many PHEVs, so it's not completely independent, but the loads for the majority of the things listed in the post above are so small as to have no significant impact on EV range.

And there does still seem to be a large amount of misinformation and untruths about EVs being spread amongst the general population. That said, they are certainly not the answer for everyone currently - there are certain model designs that are almost entirely absent in the BEV market, an inability to charge at home can make BEV ownership difficult, and lack of towing ability can also be a major factor for some too.
 
#42 ·
When tackling the issue of sustainability, to only consider how we fuel cars is ignoring half the problem, as it is the reduction of carbon emissions at all levels that’s the objective. The reality is that a clean, new battery powered car has already produced a few tons of CO2 in the manufacturing process, something that’s especially true of electric cars and their resource heavy batteries. All IMHO of course.
 
#45 ·
I have the Audi ETron 55 launch edition. Owned from new. Best ev I have driving for build quality apart from the mirrors which are known to be a problem. We have a zappi charger on the house which monitors load and we are currently in the process of getting another fitted as also have a nissan leaf 40kwh.
 
#47 ·
We've had a few emails from Procurement over the past couple of weeks. Firstly, asking whether we can switch to EV - it was a YES/NO/MAYBE option. Then yesterday it was a YES/NO to a switch in Q1 2022. They are clearly trying to whittle down the field and see exactly what the costs are likely to be.

Drove the MD's Merc EQC yesterday, my initial thoughts on it:
  • Good seating position and comfortable
  • No regenerative braking (not sure whether this model has it or not)
  • Performance - great - well they all are, aren't they?
  • Good legroom in the back
  • Not a flat floor in rear - still has the tranmission tunnel in place
  • Boot is crap! (Well anything will be compared to my V90)
  • Looks good outside
  • Didn't play with any of the tech but the interior is a bit blingy

I'm still leaning towards the Jaguar I-Pace - it's the SE specification I would have so a decent amount of kit available.
 
#50 ·
Further email from Procurement team today suggesting that if a solution could be found to put (me) us in an electric vehicle within the next 3 months would (i) we be interested.

Things are definitely moving and it's a case of freeing up the budget to replace the fleet (with early termination charges). There was talk of an order in September for January delivery but perhaps the goal posts have moved again.
 
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