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Old 10-06-2021, 10:42 AM   #1
suds
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New ICE cars with built in obsolescence!

Long story cut short, I abandoned my quest to change my old workhorse after months of searching. However, whilst looking around at different cars I was put off the current crop of newer eco friendly cars after coming to the conclusion that they are only intended to last long enough to pass the manufacturer's warranty period. To my mind the manufacturers are in a holding pattern until they make the transition to all electric.

How can a car with an engine transplanted from a lawnmower be expected to exceed 100K miles? I see that turbos are utilised extensively to increase the power but of course turbos are notoriously expensive to replace so God help you if you have two turbos.

It works for the manufacturer because they can meet pollution regs and the manufacturer knows that the vast majority of new cars are either bought/funded by companies or Joe Soap rents one for 2-3 years, but as a used proposition I think they are to be avoided in the main?
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Old 10-06-2021, 11:23 AM   #2
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manufacturers know they will all have to shift away from ICE cars eventually, maybe not world wide but if they want to sell them in this country then definitely.
So the only way they can continue to sell cars here is to reduce the impact in their current range until they switch across to all electric or hydrogen fuel cells and that means smaller forcibly aspirated cars. That's why you can get a Range Rover with a 2 litre turbo hybrid for example but i don't see why if you are mechanically sympathetic you can't make the engine last for a good while
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Old 10-06-2021, 11:36 AM   #3
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Id hope that they would last a long time but who really knows?

Im sceptical to tell the truth. Whats with all these SUV's now with 1.0L turbo engines? How much stress must that engine be on the daily basis? Im sure engine technology has come a long way but I cant be the only one whos thinking how long till such a small engine goes pop?

Also, another good example is my car. BMW M140i. Auto gearbox built by ZF. BMW state that its a lifelong oil and 'never' needs changing. I take issue with that immediately but anyway ZF (the makers) say 60k oil change. Screams to me that BMW are hoping to make some coin replacing gearboxes along the line...
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Old 10-06-2021, 11:43 AM   #4
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You could argue that 1.6 non turbo petrol engines were somewhat under capacity for SUVs like the Kia shortage. My father has just ordered another VAG car with the 1.5tsi cod engine, it’s been a great engine in the previous three cars.

As to small turbo engines well the user benefits from lower tax, less weight and better economy, which all told probably offsets the cost of a turbo rebuild every 80k miles
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Old 10-06-2021, 12:32 PM   #5
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I suspect BMWs interpretation of 'lifetime' only relates to manufacturer's warranty period or perhaps when the gearbox goes they interpret that as wear and tear?

I get the rationale re savings in running costs but my concerns also extend to all the moving parts in the engine along with my general belief that the engine is worked harder by an additional factor of 50%?
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Old 10-06-2021, 01:28 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by percymon View Post
As to small turbo engines well the user benefits from lower tax, less weight and better economy, which all told probably offsets the cost of a turbo rebuild every 80k miles
BIB - I'm not so sure about that.

My step-son's Ibiza 1.0, and my wife's 0.9 Stepway aren't anywhere near as economical as the manufacturers lead you to believe - especially if you have a heavy right foot.

Even my old 2.0 16v Cavalier SRi driven sensibly could nearly reach the economy levels of the Stepway over a full tank.

Add to that the fact that you have to scream the bejesus out of them to get anywhere, especially if loaded up and going up a hill in the Stepway, the engines are under so much more strain than a larger capacity one.
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Old 10-06-2021, 01:55 PM   #7
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I remain unconvinced that a cars battery will last anything near 100,000 miles as a well cared for and maintained ICE engine can easily go round the clock and exceed 150,000 miles. We all know batteries in general degrade over time and won't hold their charge as long. I don't won't to spend extortionate amounts of money on an electric car for the cars batteries to die before you reach 100,000 miles. I purchase cars to keep for it's entire life.
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Old 10-06-2021, 04:24 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Soul boy 68 View Post
I remain unconvinced that a cars battery will last anything near 100,000 miles as a well cared for and maintained ICE engine can easily go round the clock and exceed 150,000 miles. We all know batteries in general degrade over time and won't hold their charge as long. I don't won't to spend extortionate amounts of money on an electric car for the cars batteries to die before you reach 100,000 miles. I purchase cars to keep for it's entire life.
Most modern electric cars you can get 10 years or 100,000 miles warranty, do you get that with a Petrol.?
Seen old Prius, running on the first battery, not bad going from 2002.
Battery technology is moving big steps forward.

A friend of me, runs Tesla’s for Taxi, when he asked when they needed to be serviced, Tesla told him they would contact him when they needed, some have done 80.000 km, same brake pads, only tyres and electricity have been cost to him.
He expect the next generation to be even better.
But no emission charges, subsidised electricity, he runs his business so more economical than the previous Mercedes E class ever did (the business was Mercedes only for 40 years.)
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Old 10-06-2021, 05:59 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caledoniandream View Post
Most modern electric cars you can get 10 years or 100,000 miles warranty, do you get that with a Petrol.?
Seen old Prius, running on the first battery, not bad going from 2002.
Battery technology is moving big steps forward.

A friend of me, runs Tesla’s for Taxi, when he asked when they needed to be serviced, Tesla told him they would contact him when they needed, some have done 80.000 km, same brake pads, only tyres and electricity have been cost to him.
He expect the next generation to be even better.
But no emission charges, subsidised electricity, he runs his business so more economical than the previous Mercedes E class ever did (the business was Mercedes only for 40 years.)
10 years and 100,000 miles warranty, sounds interesting but don't be fooled in to thinking that electric cars will be cheap to run as the inevitable taxes of electricity use and pay per mile could come in to help Government recoup lost taxes from fuel duty as the electric car revolution gathers pace in the coming years IMO.
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Old 10-06-2021, 06:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul boy 68 View Post
10 years and 100,000 miles warranty, sounds interesting but don't be fooled in to thinking that electric cars will be cheap to run as the inevitable taxes of electricity use and pay per mile could come in to help Government recoup lost taxes from fuel duty as the electric car revolution gathers pace in the coming years IMO.
I think so, once they ban fossil fuels full stop, then the collective muppetts in Whitehall will be running around like headless chickens trying to work out how to make up the £40 Billion shortfall in the coffers.
Then some bright spark - see what i did there? - will come up with the idea of putting a premium on so called "dirty electric" and what is that i hear you ask? Oh it will be anything they can put a label on it so they can ramp up the tariffs on the suppiers which will inevitably end up hitting everyone in the pocket.

It has far reaching consequences for me but i stand to be corrected
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